DUST Search - [Idea!] Cargo Capacity - a limit on dropsuit stock

Ulysses Knapse wrote:

Lynn Beck wrote:

So the new proposed stats for Cargo size are as follows:
Dropsuits: 1m^3
Lav's: 10m^3
Hav's:50m^3
Dropships: 35m^3(assuming that dropships, while same dimensional size as HAV's, contain a large open spacing on the inside, as for 6 people to stand comfortably inside and rapidly deploy)

If we were to go the full football field with this, then in PC matches, the warbarge would need to be loaded with the equipment required to initiate the attack:
(Again fabricating numbers) Maximum cargo capacity would be 1 000 000 m^3
MCC is 350K m^3
Unpackaged dropsuits are 5m^3
~Lav's are 15m^3
~Hav's are 75m^3
~Dropships are 75m^3

these numbers are mainly unrelated to OP, but i thought i'd throw in just to show where i intend this system to go, if implemented as i show (crazy i know, right? Roll

)

I don't think you even need a volume for unpacked items. You can unpack and repack very quickly, after all. MCCs are a different story, though. I also think that MCCs should carry the items you actually use.

Personally, I think the numbers should be: (examples are in parenthesis)

Dropsuit Modules - 0.1m-¦
Sidearms - 0.1m-¦
Light Weapons - 0.2m-¦
Heavy Weapons - 0.4m-¦
Dropsuits - 2m-¦

Universal Vehicle Modules (CPU Upgrades) - 0.25m-¦
Light Vehicle Modules (Light Armor Repairer) - 0.5m-¦
Medium Vehicle Modules - 1m-¦
Heavy Vehicle Modules (Heavy Armor Repairer) - 2m-¦
Light Vehicle Turrets (20GJ Blaster) - 2m-¦
Medium Vehicle Turrets - 3.5m-¦
Large Vehicle Turrets (80GJ Blaster) - 5m-¦
Superlight Vehicles (Bikes) - 5m-¦
Light Vehicles (LAV) - 20m-¦
Medium Vehicles (Dropship, MAV) - 35m-¦
Heavy Vehicles (HAV) - 50m-¦

Installations - 50m-¦

MCC Volume [Unpackaged] - 100,000m-¦
MCC Volume [Packaged, Not Deployable] - 5,000m-¦
MCC Base Cargohold - 1,000m-¦

War Barge Hangar [Only usable by unpackaged MCCs] - 500,000m-¦
War Barge Cargohold [For Mercenary Equipment] - 10,000m-¦

Lists! :D


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 176	Posted - 2013.10.27 21:58:00 - [1] - Quote First off, this will require the secondary market, and SOME sort of DUST driven manufacturing: The idea is, much like EvE, there is only SO MUCH SPACE that you can fit inside of your (insert ship here) This would require assigning dropsuit sizes, and as such I shall fabricate numbers from my rear end- Militia dropsuits would be around 5m^3 Standard would be 7 adv 9m proto 14m the idea behind this is that as the dropsuits get higher level, they are more "Filled" with shtuff so they can't be compressed as much to fit in the crates. after you reach cargo capacity, you are forced to either sell, trade, or destroy shtuffz. How would this be beneficial? we are only adding a hindrance, correct? Wrong. Imagine this: a corporation (i shall imaginate one from my brain now) Tank Bros. starts up a wonderful mercenary corporation. Too wonderful in fact, so immensely wonderful that any battle they join is instantly decided. However, they have poorly trained supply corporations, who are skilled entirely in the facets of production and manufacturing (same word? i don't care :3) So their supply corporation is attacked by Granite Mercenary Division. Now, without Supply Corp A to supply Tank Bros. they are now stuck with the items that they carry in their cargo hold- after that, it's starter fits. And thus, through 1 corporation attacking a supply corporation for the #1 highest offense corp in new eden, they are brought to their knees. Could we see this as the future of DUST? I imagine so, however some (okay most) people aren't going to agree with me, as I tend to not make much sense. Anyways~.. Discuss.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 176	Posted - 2013.10.27 21:59:00 - [2] - Quote reserved..
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 176	Posted - 2013.10.27 22:00:00 - [3] - Quote Also reserved (stupid repost time...)
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 178	Posted - 2013.10.28 01:56:00 - [4] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: I think its way too early in dust to really consider these mechanics to the game. We dont even have a way right now to sell all the stuff we have that we have no interest in using or skilling into. True, note how i said AFTER we get trading and manufacturing. Again same idea as having PvE or mining, it's going to be way in the future, but it's good to know where if at all it is on the roadmap. Also to add/remove/edit things currently on the roadmap.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 178	Posted - 2013.10.28 02:04:00 - [5] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Militia dropsuits would be around 5m^3 Standard would be 7 adv 9m proto 14m I agree that Dust items should have volume, but... 1. It should only apply to moving the item via EVE ships and in null-sec planetary conquest. 2. That's way too much volume. 1m-¦ to 2m-¦ for dropsuits is plenty fine. Now, I'm sure you'll argue that it would be too easy to transport mercenary equipment, but that only applies if you only have dropsuits. Vehicles and installations would take up much more volume. Exactly, the numbers i posted had no value in my mind, just as a type of mental cue to show people that different things had different sizes. So a militia dropsuit has 1m^3 of volume, whereas standard is 2, adv is 4, proto is 7? Or a strictly linear system such as 1 2 3 4? Also how much space should a packed up HAV take? Lav? If it really would be that difficult to have storage problems for personal inventory, should we instead include a "cost for shipment" with each dropsuit?(almost like 'per cycle expenses' in Mechwarrior 4:Mercenaries) Again Immersion and real world tactics is mostly what this is for, in wars you can either out murder them, or just starve them to death. Attrition should be a viable tactic for the Metagaming of DUST
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 181	Posted - 2013.10.28 02:33:00 - [6] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Militia dropsuits would be around 5m^3 Standard would be 7 adv 9m proto 14m I agree that Dust items should have volume, but... 1. It should only apply to moving the item via EVE ships and in null-sec planetary conquest. 2. That's way too much volume. 1m-¦ to 2m-¦ for dropsuits is plenty fine. Now, I'm sure you'll argue that it would be too easy to transport mercenary equipment, but that only applies if you only have dropsuits. Vehicles and installations would take up much more volume. Exactly, the numbers i posted had no value in my mind, just as a type of mental cue to show people that different things had different sizes. So a militia dropsuit has 1m^3 of volume, whereas standard is 2, adv is 4, proto is 7? Or a strictly linear system such as 1 2 3 4? Also how much space should a packed up HAV take? Lav? If it really would be that difficult to have storage problems for personal inventory, should we instead include a "cost for shipment" with each dropsuit?(almost like 'per cycle expenses' in Mechwarrior 4:Mercenaries) Again Immersion and real world tactics is mostly what this is for, in wars you can either out murder them, or just starve them to death. Attrition should be a viable tactic for the Metagaming of DUST Tech level should have nothing to do with volume. Dropsuits should be the same volume regardless of their tech level. I'm not even sure that different size classes of dropsuits should have different volumes. LAVs would probably be at least 10m-¦ (likely more), HAVs would probably be around 50m-¦ (more or less). Dropships take about as much volume as HAVs do when deployed, but when repackaged they would probably take up less volume. I could continue, but I think you get the point. I was thinking that having mlt and prototype suits have different packaging sizes would make it harder to abandon MLT and just fill your entire cargo with 25K Proto assaults, i mean... how many of us have gone through 10K suits PERIOD, let alone 10K protos? I was proposing that this should have an impact on how PC is run, rather than attacking their military bases directly, why not attack their kitchens/bathrooms/storehouses and starve/De-Hygeine-ize(made a word ) them to the point of not wanting to fight? of course you could defend these suppliers, but it would require tactical planning and forethought on positioning of troops/defenses. Although if the general playerbase really doesn't agree, then i won't force it on anyone.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 181	Posted - 2013.10.28 02:37:00 - [7] - Quote Aviles wrote: I'm inclined to agree with you. But I don't do any planetary conquest so I don't really know all the facts here. As for the effect on regular play it wouldn't really hinder it much since when you run out u can restock on the fly in battle. So yeah I am not apposed to the idea. Didn't quite think of how (if at all) this should effect people in NPC corps/corps without districts, as there would be nothing to attack, or things that noobs couldn't defend. So when we get the end-level market where everything is produced and not just "fabricated from midair", but how would those in NPC corpmates respond to their Gallente G-1 Scout frame suddenly being out of stock, because some rich bastard bought all of them? What would these people do then? Thinking maybe NPC mates shouldn't have to deal with the EvE market. everything is bought and sold at predetermine values and when that player leaves an NPC corp, their stuff is autosold at that market standard. They will have not lost any ISK, and can then go onwards to purchase from the EvE market....
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 182	Posted - 2013.10.28 03:02:00 - [8] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: I was thinking that having mlt and prototype suits have different packaging sizes would make it harder to abandon MLT and just fill your entire cargo with 25K Proto assaults, i mean... how many of us have gone through 10K suits PERIOD, let alone 10K protos? I was proposing that this should have an impact on how PC is run, rather than attacking their military bases directly, why not attack their kitchens/bathrooms/storehouses and starve/De-Hygeine-ize(made a word ) them to the point of not wanting to fight? of course you could defend these suppliers, but it would require tactical planning and forethought on positioning of troops/defenses. You can do that without making dropsuits ridiculously voluminous. For one, volume isn't everything. Cost is important, too. Secondly, vehicles and installations take up a lot of volume on their own. Thirdly, multiple mercenaries will run out of dropsuits far faster than you think. Even with only 12 mercenaries, your team can quickly lose dozens of dropsuits in a single battle. Also, if you keep multiple dropsuits, you'll eventually either A. run out of a certain kind and be forced to use another, or B. be forced to ration your dropsuits in a way that keeps you from using your favorite. Either way, it's not very pleasant. Let me illustrate. If you keep ten dropsuits stocked at 20, that's using 400m-¦ right there, yet you can only use a specific type of dropsuit twenty times before running out. If you are forced into a specific role and don't get any restocks, you'll only have twenty chances. Alternatively, you could keep one dropsuit stocked at 200. That's also using 400m-¦. Sure, you'll be able to use your favorite dropsuit two-hundred times, but you won't be able to switch roles. You'll basically be forced to use that one dropsuit until a restock arrives, which may never come. Neither of those scenarios are very pleasant. Didn't even think about the actual numbers this would read out to, so thank you for the legit numbers. So then how much would you say is a good personal cargo capacity would be necessary for, say a 2 week war consisting of 1 PC match every 8 hours, each PC requiring 16 people, and 200-300 clones a match?(obviously not assuming they lose all 300) Also let's say a warbarge can hold 20% of 32 mercs' restocking needs per resupply once a week? (2 teams worth of a corp's members) And how vulnerable do you think these warbarges should be? should they be only EvE attackable/defendable, but defender gets 10 medium sized turrets to fit on said warbarge in case EvE assisstance is tied up due to Stealth Bombers?
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 182	Posted - 2013.10.28 03:11:00 - [9] - Quote Edited OP because it was a mess..
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 183	Posted - 2013.10.28 03:38:00 - [10] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: I apologize in advance but... I don't think this is a good idea, imagine all the work in setting sizes (already done) to frames, instituting a market (already planned) and then setting a limit on items. I can have more that 100 different ships in my inventory not-assembled in Eve and here you would limit number of items? Come on, those stations are huge! There is no reason for this. However, those are on stations, are you planning on moving an ENTIRE station to attack a district? no. You will be moving via warbarges, which have limited space to work with. Also in EvE can you have ownership of 3100 Machariels inside your hangar? If you can, let me know, because i haven't played EvE

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 183	Posted - 2013.10.28 03:56:00 - [11] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: So the new proposed stats for Cargo size are as follows: Dropsuits: 1m^3 Lav's: 10m^3 Hav's:50m^3 Dropships: 35m^3(assuming that dropships, while same dimensional size as HAV's, contain a large open spacing on the inside, as for 6 people to stand comfortably inside and rapidly deploy) If we were to go the full football field with this, then in PC matches, the warbarge would need to be loaded with the equipment required to initiate the attack: (Again fabricating numbers) Maximum cargo capacity would be 1 000 000 m^3 MCC is 350K m^3 Unpackaged dropsuits are 5m^3 ~Lav's are 15m^3 ~Hav's are 75m^3 ~Dropships are 75m^3 these numbers are mainly unrelated to OP, but i thought i'd throw in just to show where i intend this system to go, if implemented as i show (crazy i know, right? ) I don't think you even need a volume for unpacked items. You can unpack and repack very quickly, after all. MCCs are a different story, though. I also think that MCCs should carry the items you actually use. Personally, I think the numbers should be: (examples are in parenthesis) Dropsuit Modules - 0.1m-¦ Sidearms - 0.1m-¦ Light Weapons - 0.2m-¦ Heavy Weapons - 0.4m-¦ Dropsuits - 2m-¦ Universal Vehicle Modules (CPU Upgrades) - 0.25m-¦ Light Vehicle Modules (Light Armor Repairer) - 0.5m-¦ Medium Vehicle Modules - 1m-¦ Heavy Vehicle Modules (Heavy Armor Repairer) - 2m-¦ Light Vehicle Turrets (20GJ Blaster) - 2m-¦ Medium Vehicle Turrets - 3.5m-¦ Large Vehicle Turrets (80GJ Blaster) - 5m-¦ Superlight Vehicles (Bikes) - 5m-¦ Light Vehicles (LAV) - 20m-¦ Medium Vehicles (Dropship, MAV) - 35m-¦ Heavy Vehicles (HAV) - 50m-¦ Installations - 50m-¦ MCC Volume [Unpackaged] - 100,000m-¦ MCC Volume [Packaged, Not Deployable] - 5,000m-¦ MCC Base Cargohold - 1,000m-¦ War Barge Hangar [Only usable by unpackaged MCCs] - 500,000m-¦ War Barge Cargohold [For Mercenary Equipment] - 10,000m-¦ Lists! :D 0.0 lots of numbers bro. I believe that while yes, many things would go on the MCC, such as your dropsuits, weaponry, and maybe LAV's, HAV's and installations might be better fitted topside, in the warbarge, warped into the RDV room of the MCC, and then carried from there. Although dropsuits and such might be able to be removed from the warbarge hangar size, they would be inside the MCC's cargo size, meaning that you have 2 different inventories.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 183	Posted - 2013.10.28 04:12:00 - [12] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Also in EvE can you have ownership of 3100 Machariels inside your hangar? If you can, let me know, because i haven't played EvE Unfortunately, yes. There's no such thing as space management in EVE station hangars. It kind of detracts from the game, to be honest. It's just too easy and simple. Lynn Beck wrote: 0.0 lots of numbers bro. I believe that while yes, many things would go on the MCC, such as your dropsuits, weaponry, and maybe LAV's, HAV's and installations might be better fitted topside, in the warbarge, warped into the RDV room of the MCC, and then carried from there. Although dropsuits and such might be able to be removed from the warbarge hangar size, they would be inside the MCC's cargo size, meaning that you have 2 different inventories. Long-distance, large mass teleportation doesn't exist in the EVE universe. Drop Uplinks and Supply Depots are one thing, but that's very short distance, transporting very small masses. War Barges are all the way up in orbit, while MCCs are just a few hundred meters off the ground. Also, HAVs are far more massive than mercenaries. Aha, forgot about that one. Serious thing to note though is that the current MCC size cannot possibly hold 10+ HAV's, 20+LAV's, 100+ clones worth of dropsuits, 100+ clones worth of weaponry, modules, and equipments. A N D fit it's own propulsion/defensive systems? certainly at least the back quarter is for propulsion/energy reactor, and the front 20% is for shield capacitors, and shield relays. Also of noting is there's at least 2 RDV's inside that thing.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 183	Posted - 2013.10.28 06:16:00 - [13] - Quote Hmm... You make too much sense. So all of the team's Assets should then go into the MCC, and the warbarge holds the installations?
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 183	Posted - 2013.10.28 07:56:00 - [14] - Quote Another idea i've been kicking about, should dust players be totally reliant on EvE to handle protection of their warbarges? Or should we have the capability to choose between 100% cargo and reliant on eve to handle defense, or say 70% cargo, 20 % ammo and 10% fighters to defend itself? Also if they do get fighters(eve style ones) should they be 100% efficiency, or say 75% as effective as a hel-owned fighter? Would it be possible to allow Dust people to control a turret or fighter along the way to the warbarge's destination? Imagine a battle before the battle, like you're 85% to obj, but then an eve player drops by, should we be able to make that a battle under corporate contracts tab?